Hammer Debounce Device

This area is dedicated to the .25 caliber Benjamin Marauder by Crosman.

Hammer Debounce Device

Postby alohaalex » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:16 pm

Does anybody have installed this device in a maruader? does it really works?
I see that a lot of people are adjusting their rifles to different settings and I read a lot of controversy about what you gain and loose, is this really necessary? I'm happy with this rifle like it came from factory, my fear is that if I start adjusting it I might get it better in one way bud bad in another.

Thanks
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Re: Hammer Debounce Device

Postby savoyspecial1 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:36 am

I have not installed an hdd so I can not help you there. As far as tuning, if you are just using it for targets, birds, rabbits and small pests, I say if it is shooting good out of the box and your happy leave it alone. I have changed my stock, put in a depinger and I have a tko ldc on the way but I have not changed anything to do with the power. It has shot great out of the box and any thing 50 yards and under I put the cross hairs on dies. I have read mixed reviews on hdd's some people love them and get more shots out of the gun and some have mechanical problems with it. Most reviews are on the positive side. Just keep shooting, learn the rifle and your scope and you should never have to adjust it.
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Re: Hammer Debounce Device

Postby kneemow » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:24 am

So far everyone whose installed it, says it works. They've gained a few more shoots (approx 5 or more) per fill so it is working. I'm getting it since I'm going with the hand pump, and not with tanks.

I've linked the Ted's Holdover video where he installs it and explains how it works in better detail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_rrZWaF ... e=g-user-u
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But SHOUT it at them in German, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
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Re: Hammer Debounce Device

Postby Bill G » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:59 am

I'm one who isn't convinced. I haven't seen any fair or even close to scientific comparison that justifies the claims. The posted strings that I have viewed seem to be lower in velocity than what the previous string of the same people. I see acceptance of higher ES and/or lower velocity. If they attain the higher velocity they seem to be adjusting spring tension higher. Spring tension alone will act as a de-bouncer. I'm not saying that they don't work, but I am saying there aren't enough real comparisons to justify putting one in my rifle. I have achieved tunes on rifles that are as good as what I've seen after the installing he HDD.

If Your rifle out of the Box serves you as you want it to, then leave it alone. Mine was shooting very well when I got it. I was even able to hit soda cans at 100yrds consistently using the first 6 shot. Mine came in shooting fast and dropping with every shot there after. I tuned Mine because I knew it could do more and be more consistent. If your range is less than 60yrds you probably won't need any tuning. If your shooting velocities of 850 or more you are going to have a point blank range of something like 14-40 yrds inside a 3/4in circle or better. The questions I ask my self are;

What is my target or game?
How big is the kill zone or bulls eye?
How much energy do I need to humanely take the game of choice?
Will the velocity deviation allow me to stay inside that Kill zone at the chosen range, while maintaining the same Point of aim?
Those are a good place to start
If you choose to make mods or adjustments, there will be plenty of help here on this forum. There is a lot of knowledge and experience among the people here as well as connection to good products. Enjoy you rifle and happy shooting.
Bill
It is a dangerous proposition to believe that you can reason with evil.
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Re: Hammer Debounce Device

Postby Ramatam » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:45 am

Bill G makes some very valid points and the one I like especially is the one that if you take it out of the box and it does what you want it to do...leave it alone. yep if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I did get one of these HDD's from AoA and installed it. I wasn't happy with the curve I was getting before. With the HDD the first thing I noticed was the difference in velocity between shots was minimal. I got a very smooth gradual curve, up and down. About 50 psi used between shots and the standard deviation was extremely low, something like 3 or 4 if memory serves me right.This is more important for me since I shoot targets. You want little difference in velocities between shots so that your POI doesn't change much. I picked up a few extra shots as well and that's fine.
I don't generally hunt because where I live the landlord doesn't want that. But recently, with the onset of spring, we've had a big crop-O-squirrels. I live in a renovated barn on a farm and the land lord came to me and said "can you thin out the squirrel herd some with that fancy air rifle of yorn?" He was concerned about them getting in the attic. Anyway, long story short. I shot one the other day using Polymag Predators. He turned and slightly faced me as I shot and he caught it right between the eyes. The pellet went through and out the back of the head and into the shoulder shattering all the arm bones and traveled on into the body cavity. Ping, zip, thwack!! instant lights out. The squirrel was motionless for a few seconds, rolled over, gave a couple of hind leg kicks and that was it. So for squirrels, I'd say there's plenty power and then some.
Can't do a comparison to before and after. Crosman sent me a new action for the gun and I put the HDD in it as soon as I got it. I think with Poly mags and JSK EK's it's up around 860-880.
So get one as you need it..... otherwise, if you're happy with it out of the box,....go out and shoot something.
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Re: Hammer Debounce Device

Postby kneemow » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:15 pm

Ramatam wrote:Bill G makes some very valid points ...

I did get one of these HDD's from AoA and installed it.

So get one as you need it..... otherwise, if you're happy with it out of the box,....go out and shoot something.


I was dead set on getting one until I read Bill's post. Then I wasn't so sure any more. Now I read your post where you confirmed everything else I'd read about the HDD and validated my reasons for wanting to get it. Wouldn't you still get more shots with it, tuned or not, than without?
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But SHOUT it at them in German, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
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Re: Hammer Debounce Device

Postby Bullfrog » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:24 pm

I'm also one that has chosen to not get one. I opted for a 10 pound spring instead. I think it functions as an HDD without the added drag on the hammer. I get awesome velocities with minimal spread, SD, and air usage. However, not everyone else has had as good experience with the heavy spring. Every gun and tune is different. If you opt for the heavy spring its an easy install but expect to have to tune your gun for 3200 psi to get the best performance out of it.

For me I really don't like the idea of something slowing my hammer down. Its as simple as that for me.
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Re: Hammer Debounce Device

Postby duga » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:47 pm

I have pretty solid tune with an HDD installed (read more here)http://www.marauderairrifle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3807

I can't say for sure if the HDD is getting me to a tune that I couldn't get otherwise though.
.25 Mrod, HDD, depinged, tuned at 880 fps with jsb exacts (20 shots 26 fps ES)
6-24x44 BSA Tactical side AO with 10 yard increments marked on elevation turret cause I like to click
bipod and sling

Lots of firearms that collect dust
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Re: Hammer Debounce Device

Postby Ramatam » Tue May 01, 2012 7:31 am

I wrote up a long winded response to the last few post and when I tried to submit, I lost the whole thing. Perhaps for the good, there must be a windbag filter on this forum :oops:
Let me just condense it to this:

My results are not scientific. I put the HDD on a brand new gun (replaced by Crosman on warranty) so I can't compare between the old and the new. But....

1. I did see my ES and SD tighten way up. This is important for me...it might not be for you.
2. I once tried the # 10 spring but only on the old gun with poor results...something was wrong with the gun which is why Crosman replaced it. I got no curve with the #10 and minimal increase in velocity...so no comment on that as to it's HDD qualities.
3. I did get a few more shots with the HDD. If you are really interested in more shots I'd suggest the airtube extension.
4. I would imagine that you might experience a slight drop in velocity with the HDD by design. But I am shooting with it and the stock spring at respectable velocities with Exact Kings. Again, I can't compare. I should have tried the gun stock to get a baseline before installing the HDD but I wasn't aware at first that Crosman had replaced everything (they aren't good at telling you what they did and the chicken scratch on the ticket was tough to read)...the new serial number was the giveaway. BTW I have the hammer tension all the way up but then again I had it all the way up in the old gun and it shot at a lower velocity without the HDD. That's why crosman saw fit to replace it.

So here's the thing: It depends on what you are going to use it for.
1. If you are interested in a flatter smoother curve for target shooting, I think it might be worth consideration to get a HDD.
2. If you are a hunter, I think you could still consider it but not as much. If you are going to hunt, put in a #10 spring and get some good velocity/energy going. Forget shot count, you aren't going to get that many shots off anyway. If you're a serious hunter, take a buddy bottle. To put it in perspective, a Quackenbush or Dragon Claw .50 cal is only going to give you 3 or high power shots max. The idea is knock em down to where they don't get back up with one well placed shot. You need power for that, not a smooth curve.

Check out Ted's Holdover on intalling a HDD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_rrZWaFqbI

...not for the install itself but for the graphs he took the time to compile. That's a whole lot more scientific than what I'm saying here. He was using an untuned out-of-the-box .25 cal Marauder (he states that in an earlier episode with the Marauder).
Not trying to push the HDD, just putting up what I saw....hope that it helps someone in their decision making.
oops got long-winded again :D
kp
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Re: Hammer Debounce Device

Postby kneemow » Fri May 04, 2012 5:32 pm

Thanks for clearing that up. Based off of Ted's review of the MRod .25 (pre HDD install) I would get about 16 shots in a 3000 to 2000 psi run. Even at a 50% miss ratio, that's more rabbits then I or my beagle can consume in a timely manner. I'll leave my rifle stock then.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But SHOUT it at them in German, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
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