Could a pellet gun shoot a powder burner bullet?

DIY Modifications to the Benjamin Marauder, like Depingers, bolt handles, etc.
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Re: Could a pellet gun shoot a powder burner bullet?

Postby Keith_J » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:14 pm

Not really. You need the projectile to engrave the rifling. Air rifle pellets are very soft so just finger pressure is needed to engrave the bullet.

Most firearms utilize this engraving force beneficially for the internal ballistics, smokeless propellant requires pressure to achieve the correct burn rate. Ignite a small quantity of smokeless powder outside the chamber of the firearm and it will burn much slower.

The one exception to this would be hollow based .357" wadcutter bullets designed for very light loads in .38 Special revolvers work well in some .357" air guns. They are typically made of soft lead alloys, have sufficient lubricant grooves which further eases engraving force and have a center of gravity displaced forward.

Unless you have an air rifle that can launch a bullet in excess of 1800 ft/second, there is no need for jacketed bullets. I doubt you could get this velocity off air alone, you would have to use a lighter gas like helium. :geek:
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Re: Could a pellet gun shoot a powder burner bullet?

Postby Motorhead » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:45 pm

Keith_J wrote:.

Unless you have an air rifle that can launch a bullet in excess of 1800 ft/second, there is no need for jacketed bullets. I doubt you could get this velocity off air alone, you would have to use a lighter gas like helium. :geek:



Hydrogen and a spark would do it :roll:
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Re: Could a pellet gun shoot a powder burner bullet?

Postby louigi600 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:13 am

Keith_J wrote:Not really. You need the projectile to engrave the rifling. Air rifle pellets are very soft so just finger pressure is needed to engrave the bullet.

Most firearms utilize this engraving force beneficially for the internal ballistics, smokeless propellant requires pressure to achieve the correct burn rate. Ignite a small quantity of smokeless powder outside the chamber of the firearm and it will burn much slower.

The one exception to this would be hollow based .357" wadcutter bullets designed for very light loads in .38 Special revolvers work well in some .357" air guns. They are typically made of soft lead alloys, have sufficient lubricant grooves which further eases engraving force and have a center of gravity displaced forward.

Unless you have an air rifle that can launch a bullet in excess of 1800 ft/second, there is no need for jacketed bullets. I doubt you could get this velocity off air alone, you would have to use a lighter gas like helium. :geek:

Yeah there's a thing called engraving ramp or something like that (not sure of the exact English term but it should still make sense) but that was not the point I was trying to make.
The burn rate is not only a matter of pressure, the primer also will instantaneously ignite practically all the powder at once that is hard to reproduce with a lighter and the powder out of the cartridge.
Too much pressure can burst the barrel. I've never seen this happen on rifles but I've seen the effects on a shot gun that was not meant for shooting magnum cartridges: the barrel burst open 3/4 of the way down to the muzzle. The shooter was very lucky that he saved his fingers because it did not burst close to his hand, hat it burst over his hand he would have probably lost all fingers on it.

The point I was making is that you should never shoot cartridges (and or bullets) that are not meant for your gun/barrel/chamber. The effects can go range from damage to the gun to severe injury.
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David

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Re: Could a pellet gun shoot a powder burner bullet?

Postby Keith_J » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:44 pm

The engraving ramp is called the leade and is formed by the chambering reamer. Engraving in an air rifle is done by hand force when pellets are inserted into the barrel, a jacketed bullet would require mechanical advantage or a hammer to engage.

Black powder doesn't require high engraving force to properly ignite powder, jacketed bullets with lubricants like MoS2 exhibit lower pressure and lower velocity because of the reduced engraving force.
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Re: Could a pellet gun shoot a powder burner bullet?

Postby louigi600 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:09 pm

As far as I know not all guns complete the engraving as the round is chambered and maybe some only start doing that as the bullets starts it's travel down the barrel.
Whatever I still would not shoot rounds that are not meant for your gun/chamber/barrel. Next time I go to the shooting range I'll take a picture at a shot gun that was shooting magnum cartridges even if it was not meant for shooting them.

Anyway I tried putting a .22 LR round into an airgun .22 barrel and it does not fit.
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Re: Could a pellet gun shoot a powder burner bullet?

Postby Barnydaddy » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:00 pm

Crosman .22 HP measure .222 at the skirt.
22 centerfire bullets with a few exceptions measure .224
22lr lead bullets measure .224
I do not think your air rifle rifling is deeper than .001 which means the pellet is sized to .220, maybe a bit smaller in the Marauder with choked barrel.
.22lr bullets might squeeze through with removing your rifling.
Brass/copper coated CF bullets, I do not think so.
I don't know about 17 CF bullets vs .177 pellets.
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Re: Could a pellet gun shoot a powder burner bullet?

Postby louigi600 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:50 am

I did not try forcing the round into the barrel ... I tried to push it in with the same sort of force I use on my .22 to chamber the round and with that force it was not sliding in ... that's why I said it won't fit.
I'm sure I could squeeze it in but I don't want to be poking it out of a brand new .22 barrel :-).
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Re: Could a pellet gun shoot a powder burner bullet?

Postby Rualert » Fri May 10, 2013 2:38 pm

This can in fact be done. It takes quite a bit of work however to get the desired results. First you have to slug your barrel so you can either get bullets the correct size, or a mold to cast them from. The people I have seen doing this are casting from pure lead, no alloys added to keep them soft so as not to damage the barrel. They also require quite a bit of power to push them. One of the best examples I have seen is a 257 caliber Talon/Condor shooting 105 gr cast lead bullets at 227 yards. Jerry's Slugs sells 25 caliber bullets designed for the 25 caliber airguns, and many of the Talon/Condor shooters use them, so yes this is doable. I could see a hot rodded M-Rod 25 shooting Jerry's 6 rings pretty well, if not very well.

Just my 2cents,

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Re: Could a pellet gun shoot a powder burner bullet?

Postby hill » Sat May 11, 2013 9:44 am

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/pdfs/catalog/page_208.pdf

Get a barrel liner fit to your .25 cal. Marauder (pick the 1/2" O.D.), and caliber that suits you.

Quote from them:

"We can recommend a
skilled lathe expert who
can do this work for you."

for air gun?

Then shoot bullets.

Custom, sounds costly
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Re: Could a pellet gun shoot a powder burner bullet?

Postby SigMan40 » Sat May 11, 2013 10:22 am

READ: "BULLET", NOT CARTRIDGE....
Just buy a bigger damn gun that will safely shoot a (min) 36 Gr. BULLET.
Anyone that has that much time to custom pour their own AG bullets has, indeed, more time than sense. (Can't wait to pour 20-30 bullets to shoot in 5 minutes)..
I want to enjoy my AG shooting, NOT become a SLAVE to every whim and fancy... MY Marauder 22 provides excellent performance right out of the box...
Tweakers - You keep on tweakin, while I'm going to keep on enjoyin...
Just a thought...
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